MIDDLE AGEish
Authentically and unapologetically keeping it real, discussing all things Middle Age (ish), when metabolism slows and confidence grows. Middle Age(ish): A time of transition from dreaming of who we will grow up to be and looking at the legacy we will leave behind. Listen to this podcast and join the hosts of Middle Age(ish) as they sit around with a glass of wine to discuss all things related to middle age with some amazing guests!
MIDDLE AGEish
Asserting Boundaries and Building Strength with Rebecca Griffin
Have you ever felt your heart pound with unease while walking to your car at night? We have, and it's prompted a crucial conversation about women's self-defense that we couldn't wait to share with you. Joining us on the Middle Ageish Podcast is Rebecca Griffin, who shares her empowering journey into Brazilian jiu-jitsu and how earning her pink belt changed her life. We tackle the serious subject of personal safety with candid discussions about confidence, boundary setting, and the sobering realities that make these skills necessary.
During our engaging chat, Rebecca unpacked strategies that go beyond physical defense—like 'stop, block and frame'—to assertively communicate personal space. We confront the societal pressures that often silence women's instincts to prioritize safety over politeness. It's not just about knowing how to react but also about changing how we prepare and educate our children, especially boys, on respecting boundaries. The stories we exchange are real, raw, and a testament to why self-defense is an essential skill for women today.
Wrapping up the episode, we explore the unfortunate truth about bystander apathy and its implications for personal responsibility. So, whether you're new to the concept or looking to reinforce your skills, this episode promises to be an eye-opener on the importance of being prepared for anything life might throw your way.
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Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast. Authentically and unapologetically, keeping it real, Discussing all things Middle Age-ish, A time when metabolism slows and confidence grows. Join fashion and fitness entrepreneur Ashley Badowski, former Celtic woman and founder of the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy. Lisa Kelly licensed psychologist and mental health expert, Dr Pam Wright and highly sought after cosmetic injector and board certified nurse practitioner, Tricia Kennedy Roman. Join your hosts on the journey of Middle Age-ish.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Middle Age-ish Podcast. I am Dr Pam Wright and I'm here with my co-host, lisa Kelly, and Tricia Kennedy-Roman, and we are missing our third wheel tonight, ashley, unfortunately she can't be here.
Speaker 4:No, we miss her.
Speaker 3:We do. We miss you Ashley. Yeah, we miss you, ashley, but today we do have with us Rebecca Griffin. So excited to have you.
Speaker 3:So Rebecca is actually a good friend of mine, went to the same high school, but I'm not going to tell you which one of us graduated earlier, because we're just going to pretend we're the same age.
Speaker 3:But I've known her forever and I wanted to have her on the show because we had a conversation after there was a girl that was murdered who was running at the University of Georgia Very sad story and we just started talking about it and she was telling me like, oh yeah, like you know, when people are looking for someone to attack, this is what they do and you don't have to be like big to be able to fight people off and those kind of things. So the day I actually talked to her about this, she was going to get her pink belt, which is a I was thinking, okay, black belt, where's pink belt? I've never seen the pink belt, even though my son did karate, but in jujitsu there's a pink belt and that's why you actually went right to this facility is because it's not about muscles, but it's about you can be small and use your height, everything to help fight and do some self-defense.
Speaker 2:For smaller people or weaker people, and the course is actually called Women's Empowered and it's a self-defense course. That has in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. So I didn't know anything about it at all. I haven't done martial arts in my whole life, never interested or anything but I went to a free seminar and just learned a couple of small things.
Speaker 2:It was a two-hour seminar and the moves were so simple and they're not necessarily intuitive, if you don't understand it, but they were so simple and so effective and I was just reeled in and I thought, well, yeah, I definitely want to do this and I want to help other people too. So that was two years ago and in this particular jiu-jitsu self-defense course, the end goal is to get a quote-unquote pink belt and it's literally the color pink, so you're not wearing your white belt anymore and the pink belt is only for this particular class and it doesn't always take two years, like me, but you could do it faster or slower, but it just happened to take me two years. So that's how I got started in it and became interested in it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but she sent me a picture of her face after she did the test. I mean, you have to do all these things and they film you and then they have to submit it to people who review what you've done to make sure that you did everything accurately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's videoed, which I hated. But you do the test. It's about 45 minutes or so and you go through all the moves and you can take little breaks but about warm you out. Our instructor, who's a black belt he's a five-degree black belt he said actually it's the hardest test out of all the belts, this women's course. So I thought that was like well, thank goodness, so I don't feel too bad. But yeah, so I have my pink belt now and it was like I said this was just out of the blue. It's not anything in my experience I've done before, or interest or anything like that, but I'm glad I did it. So there you have it.
Speaker 2:So, you just woke up one day and you're like I'm going to do a women's self-defense course. Well, I've always wanted to. I wanted to do some sort of self-defense course. Yeah, well, I've always wanted to. I wanted to do some sort of self-defense. But a friend of a friend knew of this class and I was like, well, why not? I had a free Saturday. So I went up there and did it and literally it's. It was the actual moves themselves, For example, wrist releases of someone grabs your wrist. There's an easy thing to do that and I try it on my husband all the time and a big guy and he and I can always get away. So it was just blew my mind how simple it was. And, like I said, I've never had experience with jiu-jitsu at all. But it's based on the principle. So it's not like they're preparing, preparing you to go fight at a competition or anything they're. They're preparing you to get away to safety if you're attacked. And I can continue going on if you want me to.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm curious to hear more about it and her husband, just so you know is a wrestler, so he does wrestling, so he's like very big. So we were talking about like how, if somebody were to attack us I don't know, since we've had this conversation, she always talks about like if you pull up to a gas station, are you aware if you're the only female there? We talked about how males don't have to really worry about someone stealing their you know things, or attacking them or things like that but I'm never aware.
Speaker 3:I'm always getting out of the car with my phone, with my keys, like I'm.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm never aware of my surroundings, and so now I'm like getting out of my car and that's what they talk about kind of in the beginning, and some of the first things that you learn is the in this particular class and I'm sure there's self-defense classes that have some version of this somehow but the first kind of things you learn are the four phases of an attack, if it's by a stranger, which is identify an unsuspecting target. That's number one. So, and then our instructor always told us that it's going to be someone who's maybe their shoulders are down or they're looking down at the ground, or they're busy on their phone, or they're carrying a bunch of stuff in their hands and not paying attention to their surroundings, or maybe they've parked way off in a parking lot that's isolated or something like that. And I've always heard before this class that women with ponytails are always a good target because it's easy to grab. Wow, so that number one is identify an unsuspecting target is the first phase of an attack, so that's what the attacker would do. And then number two is to subdue and isolate the victim, and let's see. I wrote some notes down, but basically our instructor told us that this is the phase where you really want to do your best to try not to go with someone to somewhere else, which we've probably heard before in other scenarios just don't go to that second location, you know. And so this is the point where someone's trying to grab you and physically move you away from where you are. And let's see here, and if they're at that point, if they're asking for something, like if they have a weapon, for example, if they're asking for something or not really asking, demanding like your money or your purse or some jewelry or something, at that point just give it to them, because he always says it's never worth your life or getting hurt. So at that point if you can get rid of them, that's great. But anyway, that's the stage two.
Speaker 2:And then the third one, if they get you subdued and isolated, is that the attacker's goal is to control and exhaust you, and usually this stage ends up on the ground. And so there's tons and tons of moves in jiu-jitsu that when you're on the ground it's actually to your advantage. It doesn't sound intuitive, especially for women, because normally an attacker is going to be a sexual attack, but actually there's tons and tons of things you can do on the ground to defend yourself. And so he's always talking about or our instructor is always talking about you want to train and know these moves so well that when you're on the ground you're doing the moves with a smile, not maybe, not literally, but the idea, idea that you're not wearing yourself out and you're not panicked and using up all your energy because you don't want to get exhausted at that point when you're on the ground, because you're probably going against someone who's much bigger and stronger and your stamina is probably not going to match theirs, your strength is not going to match theirs. So you want to kind of conserve your energy and if you know the moves well enough and the techniques of what they taught us, the theory is anyway that you can do that, just like with muscle memory, and that you're not using a lot of energy.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, the fourth phase of an attack is for the attacker to carry out the assault and hopefully, you know it never gets to that point. But those are the four stages Identify an unsuspecting target, which, if I could get a message across and what I share with my friends is that's the number one. And, like you said, you know, just become more aware of your surroundings when you're out and about and think about the way you carry yourself. And I will tell you that after this course I think about it all the time, particularly if I'm walking in a parking lot. I try to carry myself a little more confidently Some of it's conscious and some of it's unconscious because I feel kind of, if I can say this kind of badass now.
Speaker 4:I got my pink belt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with your shoulders back and like if someone's if's, let's say if you're in the mind of an attacker, if there's two people to choose from, am I going to choose the woman that is like walking confidently and with a purpose and is looking around, or somebody that's kind of like this with shoulders crunched over or on their phone. So anyway, that first phase is very important, to kind of understand and kind of make it part of your everyday life, of thinking about it each time you go out. And then just to repeat, the number two is subdue and isolate, three control and exhaust and four carry out the attack. So that's for a stranger attacking you.
Speaker 4:It's so funny because I think people's initial I know what I'm like on my phone. I sometimes get on my phone to avoid eye contact. So, it's more. It's like the messages seem mixed because it's like I don't want to draw attention to myself. And then sometimes I know what you're saying. You want to be confident and you're. If you look around. And I know we had this conversation off the air, talking about making eye contact and talking to somebody that they're less likely to attack you, but it just seems so strange to do.
Speaker 2:It does seem strange and I will tell you that when I first started some of the things and I'll tell you a couple techniques here in a minute that didn't come naturally and you don't necessarily think oh, that's. Or intuitively think, oh, I would do that in this instance. Or because you do want to. Oh, I don't want anybody to bother me, I don't want to get trapped in a conversation and I don't want that gross guy, you know, looking at me. So I'm just going to look straight, you know. So you kind of do have to consciously think about it for a while. You kind of change your behavior a little bit, you know. You kind of change your behavior a little bit, you know, and unfortunately I was telling Pam earlier that, you know, I wish it wasn't the case. But for us women in particular I know men can also be victims, but in particular women that's just the state of affairs. So we just have to, you know, bring it up a notch and protect ourselves.
Speaker 5:I do At 4'11". When I get out of my car, I try to walk like a badass. I act like I'm scared of nothing, even though I'm really scared of everything because I want to look confident. So I've always kind of had that mindset, without knowing, you know I just I wanted to look like, hey, I shouldn't be messed with, but really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think the fear for me was always, like you know, being on the subway in New York and if you make eye contact with somebody in New York and they start shouting at you, you're like, oh, what am I supposed to do? So I think that kind of and growing up in a city as well, you would never make eye contact with people on the street, but I do get it. When you're on your own and you're in an isolated part, you want to make sure that you're confident and you're talking to them and you're moving and just keep going and act as confident as you can. It's just, it's so hard to know what to do in this situation.
Speaker 2:And another thing that kind of after we've learned these phases, one piece of, or actually one of the first moves or techniques that he teaches us is okay, let's say you do run into somebody that kept eye contact with you and then maybe he always gives the example. You're at a gas station, for example, pumping your gas, minding your own business, and some guy comes up and maybe you glanced at him before and he still keeps coming to you, walking, and says, oh, can I get the time? Or hey, can I borrow a dollar. A lot of times you'll instinctively feel either awkward or creeped out awkward or creeped out. But also, as women, we are kind of socially trained to be polite, be nice, and oh, can I help you? Or sure, I can give you the time.
Speaker 2:But what I learned in this is that you have to find your voice. So if you do have that encounter where someone is not letting go of your eyesight and coming closer to you or asking for something, this technique is called stop, block and frame. So stop, that's the number one. You put your hand up like you're stopping traffic and you have to find your voice where it's strong and you mean business, not like, oh, stop, but you have to say stop. I said stay back. And if it's a good guy and you just made a mistake and they really did want the time a good guy is going to say oh I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry for bothering you, I didn't mean to scare you. So even if you're a little bit embarrassed for that awkward encounter, you're safe and you're creating a behavioral pattern for yourself.
Speaker 2:But if it's a bad guy, first you've raised your voice and maybe other people have heard you, you've drawn attention to yourself and then you've kind of given the message like I'm not playing around, you can stay back. And then, if the person is still coming at you, there's some moves that you can do that easily push them out of the way. You wouldn't think it, but I tell you it's just the wildest thing. I mean you can have a 300 pound dude coming at you and you know you put both hands on their shoulders and you kind of lean into them and then use their weight and they're leaning towards you to kind of push them out of the way.
Speaker 2:It's kind of hard to explain with not doing it and on a podcast, but the point of me explaining that technique was to find your voice and us women don't have to be so polite and I'm guilty of it all the time. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. My girlfriends at work we always talk about okay, you're going to owe a dollar if you say sorry one more time for some innocuous thing. So, finding your voice and being okay with saying no, stay away, this is my personal space and really raising your voice and I think you can get over the embarrassment if it's going to protect yourself, you know, eventually that's great.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't think to do that, I would think ah, that would be my response.
Speaker 4:I still think in this day and age. It's amazing, though, still, how men will approach you for things when they all know. I always assume that they know I'm like you must know that this is scary to us, but they don't seem to. They still like. I had a and I was out walking the dog a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4:It was super early in the morning and there was nobody around and I live very close to a softball field and I had the dog with me and as I was walking around, there's like a dirt road and there was nobody around. It was was cold in Georgia, so nobody ever walks when it's cold in Georgia and a car pulled up on the dirt part, the dirt path right beside me, but they kind of blocked me as I was walking with the dog. Now I took one look in the car and I knew they were missionaries, so I was like, oh, it's okay, but I'm still astounded by the fact that I know there were young guys. But I was like this is so wrong. There's nobody around. You've pulled a car straight up beside me and you want to talk to me and I'm like standing away. And thankfully the dog was. You know, he wasn't very friendly to them, but I was still like this it's so wrong and I just don't understand in this day and age how men think it's okay to do that.
Speaker 2:It's not something they have to worry about.
Speaker 4:They don't have to think about it.
Speaker 2:So it's not on their mind. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3:That is scary. You would think that people would have more social cues. They were very young. They were very young.
Speaker 4:But I did give the two local churches a call to let them know that this is not okay. To be honest, if I had been a different person here in Georgia and I was carrying, that might not have ended very well, exactly, and I was trying to explain that it wasn't like for these poor young guys out.
Speaker 3:You know trying to spread the word so yeah we were talking earlier. So I had a client that was telling me that she was in a different country, and they do a lot of times there's like techniques and things that they'll do, like if you look like you're lost and you're looking at your phone and trying to figure out where you're going, and she said that they just stepped away from the luggage for like literally two seconds to look at a phone because the guy was like, can I help you?
Speaker 4:But he was working with somebody else and so he's like can I help?
Speaker 3:you and they're like, oh, we're looking for this hotel. As soon as they said we're just looking, got the luggage that had passport, I mean everything. The entire trip like ruined and like left. And you shared a story about something similar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I took a trip, and I don't think I told you this, but back when I worked at Delta, I was going to just take a trip by myself, because you know, it's easy to fly when you're an employee, and so I decided just to go to Peru at the last minute and this was when I was single and luckily my mother, who also worked for Delta, decided at the last minute to come with me.
Speaker 2:And the reason I was lucky is because I got robbed on the way from the airport to the hotel we were staying at, because the person broke the window of the cab we were in and literally launched inside the cab and grabbed my bag that I had kept on the floorboard of the car, which had all my money, you know, some special items and things like that. So of course I freaked out and luckily my mother was there, so I had, you know, someone, and it's a long story, but it what I was telling Pam was the one thing that I learned for sure is like keep your important documents and your money on your person. Yeah, and especially, you know we're talking about especially going international, because I've had a friend that pickpocketed, lost their phone, so you just feel so violated, and then you're somewhere you don't really know well, yeah, and you're without anything. But yeah, it definitely opens your eyes and I'm more alert, even when I travel now too.
Speaker 5:I came back from a trip late at night. I took a red-eye. Got home and got back to the carport or the car parking area. I couldn't remember where I parked my car, so I was like doing loops and loops. I kept hitting my little alarm button trying to find my car. I couldn't find it and there was a group of two guys that kept circling around. It was like two in the morning. They kept circling around the parking lot. I thought I'm about to die. There was no one around and my thought was, if they get me, I'm going to claw the heck out of them.
Speaker 1:So at least they can get my DNA or their DNA out.
Speaker 5:I was so terrified I thought I'm done, but I'm going to fight. I'll get out and get some DNA on my fingernails.
Speaker 1:It's so sad we have to live like that, but I was thinking that the whole time.
Speaker 5:I'm like, yeah, they're going to have a fight before I go down. That's all I know. That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3:I think it's sad. How many people, though, like even my clients have stories like that. You know where it's, just like one're crossing the street, and so they always like, okay, go to the other side, you know, like you read all of the things to do, but in that moment it's just terrifying and you're just thinking, oh gosh, what do I do? How do I get away? And part of like what we were talking about, because obviously my daughter's getting ready to go to college and she's like five foot one and like tiny, like you know, barely 100 pounds and I was thinking, wow, you, what if something?
Speaker 3:You know the whole UGA thing, you know she's going to college there. What if that had been her Cause she exercises and those kinds of things? And so what I liked about what you were saying that I think would be good for her and like all of us, is like it's not about your size. You know that you can, like you can really work with you know your size and angles and things like that to help get someone like away and to get to safety.
Speaker 2:And the big thing with this particular class and the art of jujitsu itself is he always talked. Our instructor always talks about you. Use space and leverage. Those are the two words I was trying to make sure I remember, because one thing they always say is that whoever the person that controls the space, controls the fight and includes not just, as I was describing before, when someone walks up to you and you try to keep the distance before they get in your personal space. That also means if I'm down on the ground with someone and someone's like, kneeing down between my legs and has their body over top of me, there's moves in this course that I took over top of me. There's moves in this course that I took and I'm again disclaimer, I am no expert by any means, but this just really spoke to me and I was able to really latch on to some of the principles they were talking about. But when you're in close, you can use your arms and forearms together to form like a frame against someone, because what you don't want to do is if I'm on the ground with some huge guy, I'm not going to try to punch him. That because if it becomes a punching fight, obviously I'm going to lose? Yeah, because I'm not as strong, I'm not as big, so I have to use other ways to control the space between me and him, create space between me and him so I can do certain moves. One of the moves that's famous in this jujitsu is the shrimp move, so it helps you get out from under them and then you can use your legs to kick at the person right in the face. I mean it sounds super violent, but it really works for people who are smaller. And our instructor says actually there's tons of advantages if you're smaller. Even if you're in a competitive sport with jujitsu or other martial arts, this particular one is almost advantageous for a smaller person. It's harder for the bigger person to find those spaces within. So I thought that was super cool.
Speaker 2:These are things that I just they're not on my radar at all, that I would never think and that's why, to me, like some of the moves were, they weren't intuitive at all. I had no idea how I would do that, because usually in the beginning of our class he'll say well, when he's demonstrating a move for the first time, is okay, what? What do you think is a common reaction to you? Know, some guy hold pinning your arms back above your head, and then we'd say you know you wiggle or you try to pull them down, and basically you do a lot of the opposite of what you think. So that's why I think it's important for women to take a class. If it's not this one, I mean there's many other types, but this particular one made sense to me and I just thought it was cool how you know the physics of it all.
Speaker 5:So this wasn't just a local thing. The pink belt is something that's like nationwide.
Speaker 2:The particular class I went to is Gracie Balance Academy in Peachtree City, and the Gracie name for those who aren't familiar with this art is a very popular name. It was a guy back many years ago that formed Brazilian jiu-jitsu and he got it from the Japanese, I believe, but he kind of modified it for himself and his whole family is the name Gracie, and they're all over the United States. I think they're headquartered in California, so I'm not an expert on the history either, but it's all over the country these academies or studios where they and they have classes for kids for like bullying and things like that. How to you know defend for kids in the women's one, and then they also do ones that are more traditional classes where people who may want to, you know, compete or spar with people and things of that nature. But right now all I really know about is the women's one.
Speaker 5:What was the most shocking thing that you heard in that whole class? What was the thing that surprised you the most?
Speaker 2:That the smaller person is an advantage. Honestly, and our instructor, he himself is not a huge guy but he's a five degree black belt, so I'm sure he could probably take me down with a pinky, but he and he, he was really good at telling stories about when he was a kid and when he first started learning it, how he was able to, you know, use some of the techniques against bigger people and just some of the simple moves that make the biggest difference. It's hard to really understand it until you kind of see it yourself. But and you know I'm not necessarily commercial for this particular class, although I love it and I would recommend it but any kind of self-defense, I think, is good for women to pick up, and I think there's some universal points too, like the be aware of your surroundings type thing and also just what you get out of it. So you know, for me what I got out of it in general is, you know, a little more air of confidence. I'm not too much of a physical, active person, I'm not a sports person or anything like that, but just being able to oh, I can do these things. I'd never knew I could do that. And so the feeling of confidence and just having an accomplishment and that, for my brain, works.
Speaker 2:I thought it was really good to have like an end goal, you know, of the pink belt. That's what I'm striving for, so that kind of helped me continue on and stay with it, because I wanted to accomplish something and I've also found. One thing I really liked about it was all the women you know gained friends from it and we're all very supportive of each other and I thought that was just super cool and I had so much help when I told some folks that I was going to be testing for the pink belt. So many of the women were, you know, took extra time with me and helped me train and drill and all that and were very encouraging. So you know, I'm all about empowering women literally that's the name of the class, but I like that aspect of it too because it's kind of like a sisterhood and I thought that was cool.
Speaker 3:I think two things that we talked about that would be interesting. One is not to be too much information. We were talking about choking. I guess you think the stronger you choke the better, but it really is about how strong you do it, but the duration, so that part of it. And then also you were saying that you train about how to get a weapon from someone. But if you get the weapon you have to use it. You can't just get a weapon and then try to run or leave. So that's a hard. I think women would have a lot of thought about those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the choking thing, so you can use. They give you some techniques on how to choke someone if you needed to, if there was an instance where you needed to, and they're very careful about how they teach that and you work with a partner throughout the class so you have to be careful you don't go full force or anything like that. But we were taught that, okay, if you hold a choke, you can have someone pass out unconsciously within six seconds. If you hold it longer than that, they're going to be out for a lot longer time 30 seconds you can start creeping into a time where they might not come back and so again, this goes back to the training where you want to have that in the back of your mind when you're performing that particular technique of choking, because you use in your brain time versus strength.
Speaker 2:So if I'm going to choke you, I'm going to try to. If you can count in seconds one, two, three, all the way to six and that can give you some time to get away if you need to. But you may be in a crazy circumstance where you can't get away to safety really quickly. So you can take further steps to make that person you know go out longer or, if you have to, you know, have them never come back, and so those are things you train on and, again, I would never have known any of those kinds of things about how long it takes strength, yeah, you think it would be a matter of fact, they tell you, when you perform the choking moves you have, you should start slowly rather than expending all your energy at once and doing it really hard, because you're going to get tired and out of that battle.
Speaker 2:If you're doing it really fast versus the guy that's trying to survive, that he's going to outlast you. So that's why you kind of want to perform a choke slowly and use that counting in your brain to kind of gauge where you are or what you're going to end up with, so to speak. You mentioned the weapons. Do you want me to talk about that for a second? Okay, so whenever we did a weapons class and I don't handle weapons in my personal life or anything like that, so I was completely out of character or not character, but just completely new to me, and so he always took it very seriously and we practiced with rubber knives and rubber guns, and so the idea is, if someone's coming with you with a weapon kind of to harken back to what I spoke about in the beginning the first thing is, if they're asking for material things, just give it to them. It's not worth it. Your wallet, your purse, your watch, your jewelry, just go ahead and give it. It's not worth, you know, getting injured for sure. And then, if you know, if it's a situation where they want more than that, if they're, you know, obviously trying to sexually assault you or, you know, physically harm you, you know you have the ability to make a decision if you're willing to put up a fight or not. If you decide, yes, I'm going to fight this, then there's techniques to disengage the weapon from them. And if that happens, you have to be willing to use that on the person. So when you say at some point in the technique, you say, drop the weapon, because after you've broken their arm, for example, and you pick up the weapon, you need to use that, because the problem is, if you don't, then there's a chance that they could come back and use it on you, and most likely they would at that point, because they're going to be super mad that you just did all these cool moves on them and hurt them, you know. So you have to have that mindset too.
Speaker 2:And again, that goes back to training and just being really comfortable with the moves and knowing what to do, so that you're not, you know, deep in thought when you're at that moment of, and have that moral decision of oh gosh, this means I might be taking someone's life. It just has to be kind of muscle memory and you just know what to do. So if you made the decision to put up that fight, then that's what you need to do, and then sometimes it's a win if you just survive and I don't think that you can always. You know there's not necessarily one better way or the other. It's your decision how you want to.
Speaker 2:You know if you are just there laying there and you know waiting, if you survive, that's a win too. So there's lots of, I guess, theories and philosophies about how to do all that and the best methods, and I'm sure there's other classes that have different takes and things of that nature. So it's just something to think about and I think, even if we're just thinking about it and talking about it, I think that is important because it gets our mind thinking about protecting ourselves in general.
Speaker 5:I think one of the simplest things you said is probably the most useful for me, because I still think, until I took a course and had more confidence, I'd still freak out in the end or just take out running instead. But I think the whole stop if someone's approaching you because it does feel awkward and embarrassing. But you're right, if it's somebody normal who's not trying to cause a problem, then they're going to be like oh okay, this chick's crazy, I'm going to leave her alone, you know. So that's one time to look crazy and be embarrassed, I guess so.
Speaker 5:I think that's really useful, because that's something I think I could do for sure you.
Speaker 2:Like I said, if it's a good guy, they're gonna be. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to scare you and we have to get over that as women, particularly of being a little bit embarrassed or, you know, being a little bit having that awkward moment with someone, and then you can. If it's a good guy, then you can just kind of laugh about it and say, oh, whatever, okay, you really do need the time, you know, and you know, go on about your life, but if it's a bad guy, then you want to do what you need to do. Yeah, bring attention to yourself and, like I said, find your voice is the other thing.
Speaker 4:Just wish the good guys were just a little cleverer sometimes and not approach you. If we could just teach them that.
Speaker 3:But you make a good point because, as a mother of boys and as a mother of boys, what would you teach them or tell them? Because they don't think about fear in the ways I think that people say like I think of a college student.
Speaker 3:A male is not thinking about fear like a female student walking around campus by herself or like you walking around the airport, you know, looking for your car by yourself, like they may have been there to help you legit, but you don't feel it that way and they they wouldn't see how you feel things.
Speaker 4:Does that make? Don't feel it that way and they, they wouldn't see how you feel things. That makes sense. I also. I know we also had this conversation before and I think sometimes you know the unless they look really scary, you're not as scared. So, like you know, if a good-looking guy approaches you, you're not on guard, you're kind of you know, whereas if somebody looks a little dodgy, you're going, I'm going to keep away from them, but I just it's just so hard for women, you just don't know like who's a predator, who's not because it's crazy, some of the biggest predators were very normal looking or handsome looking ted bundy and most women are killed by people they know as well, which I also think is the crazy situation then, because then your guard is completely down.
Speaker 4:You know at least, not at least, but when it's random at least maybe in some way you have that chance to react. But I think when you know somebody you know is your attacker that's actually perfect.
Speaker 2:Segue into one other thing I was going to mention, if I have a few minutes, is that you remember in the beginning I talked about the four stages of an attack of a stranger. There's actually talked about the four stages of an attack of a stranger. There's actually the same thing four stages of an attack for a non-stranger, and the first one is intrusion and that's basically like little tiny moments you know, every day, and they may build. It may start with just touching your hand, or then it might the person may gently rub up the shoulder the next day, then it might be to a small you know, messing with your hair, or then rubbing your back and you might feel, you know, we've all felt that, at least I have many times because people like to invade your space and not think about that's your person, that's your body, so those little everyday things that may happen. So if someone has bad intentions, they're probably going to start with those little tiny intrusions every day. It could be a co-worker or a family member or a friend that they just get a little bit more into your personal space. So that's stage one for a non-stranger, those little intrusions. A second stage is desensitization. So they've. You know they've done it so often, they're kind of numb to it, so you're not necessarily thinking about it now as what it really is. You know because they've done it so often, I mean you become used to it. The third stage is isolation, which, as you remember in the other one with a stranger, the same kind of thing. So so this person, if they know you, they, they may know your schedule, they may know your interest and know where you will be, and then they may know where is a good opportunity, where you're going to be alone or something like that. So that isolation and getting away, getting you away from people you know, to carry out some sort of attack, which is the fourth stage. So if they have you isolated and they're able to overcome all your techniques, if you've learned any, then they'll carry out the attack there. So I thought that was another interesting aspect of this.
Speaker 2:What I've learned from this class is those little steps for people that know you, because I really had that happen more. You know now that I'm really thinking about it. I've had that happen more than I would have imagined. You've probably felt this in your own life. Oh, that's a little creepy. I don't like someone to come rub my back. I don't know you that well, you know.
Speaker 2:And again, that's when you have to find that voice within you, just like with a stranger, where you're saying you have to put your hand up and say stop, stay back. Well, with someone that you know, you know if they put their arm on you or your shoulder or whatever you say, you know I'm a little uncomfortable with that. Can you please step back out of my personal space Again? Us women, we're going to be, you know, we've been trained to be polite and you know not make anybody feel bad. But you got to get over that. You just got to stand up for yourself. You know it's your body, it's your personal space and if it's making you feel awkward, just say you know you don't have to be, you know, necessarily mean or yell it. Just be assertive. Hopefully, you know, someone will get the picture and just say you know that's making me feel uncomfortable, I don't need you to do that. Can you back up, please, and use that assertive tone? So, yeah, you have to think about that in your everyday life too.
Speaker 4:I think kids are getting better at that, though I mean, they're definitely better than when we were younger.
Speaker 4:You know, I can see a difference. I always remember the boys on the bus and I was always saying to them you're not to put your hands on somebody else's body, like, even as kids go, do not. You do not touch another person's body, keep your hands to yourself, don't do anything. But I do think that message with kids is better now than it was when we were growing up, because I think we were stuck in that you have to be polite.
Speaker 2:And I think we're getting better. Certainly our daughters are getting a little bit better and I think because our age, our parents, our age are also bringing it up more to the kids. My best friend, she talks to her kids. He was in elementary school about knowing what consent is, you know so, and I, as a mother of a boy, a young boy, I want to teach him those things consent also, but, as I think you were talking about earlier. So they know and understand personal space and know that they just can't walk up to a girl and just put their hands on them for and it could be for even, you know, innocuous reasons they don't have bad intent, but they should, you know, I hope to you know, explain and hope my son understands why that is not acceptable or appropriate, because I don't, you know, it doesn't necessarily come naturally, especially if you never talk about it. So hopefully we're raising good boys.
Speaker 5:That's all I can hope for I think it's cool that fact that you said that you know because I picture a lot of times with this self-defense is that more someone who's already really athletic, because I would, you know, croak if I was in a boxing competition or karate. So it's cool to hear you say that you got that confidence just by learning the appropriate maneuvers and you don't necessarily have to be, you know, a bodybuilder or really athletic.
Speaker 2:I am not the picture of an athletic person, but anybody can do these techniques, even if you're.
Speaker 2:You know, you don't have to be an Olympic athlete and you don't have to be massively big or strong necessarily, and for me it was easy, simple things that just made it worth trying to really understand.
Speaker 2:So I think you know, I think it's important for women to find something that they feel comfortable with, because I've never done any of these kind of classes. So, and as our instructor says, sometimes when we have, you know, seminars or the first class, just the person walking in the door, sometimes that's the win for that person, because it takes a lot if you're not used to it or if you're a little intimidated, thinking, oh, this is related to jujitsu, but you don't have to know those kind of things, you don't have to be athletic, you don't have to have certain qualities. So you do have to find a place or a class or things that make you feel comfortable enough to stick with it so you learn about it. A particular one just happened to be, you know, find me at the right time in my life, which I'm very thankful for. So, yeah, I'm promoting all self-defense classes.
Speaker 4:But of course I love this one that's so important, though I've never done one either, I mean it feels like something we should have all done at some point in our lives, because we spend most of the time being terrified. So it's like it should have been something we did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know about you guys, but ever since I was a teenager, if I was in the parking lot, I was always I don't know if this was from an Oprah show walk with that one key sticking out, ready to fight. Yeah, always, yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I don't think about that as much as I should, but I do think that as females, we have an issue of being finding our voice and I feel like what you said about finding your voice is the biggest part for some people. And I feel like, obviously, petrie city, the bubble, you know people are, there's not much crime here, there's not much. But I've had several clients, you know, carjacked, you know attacked or stolen, whatever it's everywhere, most recently, I think, you know, with lake and riley, whatever it's everywhere.
Speaker 5:Most recently, I think you know, with Lake and Riley. I mean, that was just such a heartbreaking case because she was just jogging, you know, on a campus which you would think would be safe in the morning, so it's not like a late night out, you know, in an isolated area. So I think that just with that it just makes us remember it can really happen anywhere, anytime, and not necessarily in a place that seems, you know, a dangerous place.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, just be prepared, and hopefully you know something bad could still happen, but you know at least you're as prepared as much as you possibly can be you want every advantage if you can, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. The other thing and this is off topic, but I was watching something I guess it was a couple of weeks ago, but like a bullying situation, and this girl was really like she almost died. She was in the hospital in critical condition, but everyone's like watching and filming, but people don't really like intervene. It's kind of like that stranger bystander.
Speaker 2:You know, people don't get involved. I just can't imagine. I mean, we always hope, or at least I would always, I to. Oh, surely I would do something, you know, surely I would step in, of course, kind of don't you?
Speaker 5:think the mom instinct you'd have to.
Speaker 3:I mean it's so interesting how people don't, and that's like one of the big psychology studies. It was in new york. There was a girl that was getting beaten and was yelling out and she actually was killed. And the next day they like interviewed people and talked to them and most everyone heard, but everyone thought that somebody else was calling or somebody else was calling the police or somebody else was doing something, and actually no one did anything. And so I think about also not just that person and that struggle, but like what we can do if we ever are cognizant or aware of someone going through something, and how we can like jump in and help or like train boys and sons and people to like you know help and don't approach somebody in a certain way.
Speaker 3:You know ways and techniques to go about helping others.
Speaker 2:I think about what I tell my son almost every day is you know, is there anybody you can help today? Who are you kind to today? Make sure you're. You know, and again it goes back to that, you know, hopefully we're raising really good, strong, helpful, kind men eventually that know all these things already and aren't like trying to catch up when they're adults. You know so, it's ingrained in them. So that's, I'm trying to do my part with my son. That's all I can do and hopefully encourage others, because I tell you what, ladies, if I can do this, anybody can. Because I tell you what. Ladies, if I can do this, anybody can, if I can.
Speaker 2:When I went back and took my test Pam mentioned in the beginning how I showed her a picture of myself after the test my face was so beet red I thought I was going to pass out because I was nervous first to take this test and then I had some adrenaline going and it is quite an exhausting test, just naturally. But if I can get through it, I think anyone can and hopefully, you know, someone hears me and they're encouraged to maybe try something they never thought they would do. Like I said, this is out of my realm, but I I feel like so accomplished and like it's so worth it. I have like a, an actual, legit skill to help myself and I'm going to continue learning with and training because I want to keep that skill up and hopefully, you know, hopefully I'll never, ever have to use it. But I like sharing the information because I thought it was so, so cool.
Speaker 5:I love that and I think we're all women so we're talking about pink belt, but I think honestly, like as I'm thinking about this, I wouldn't I'm a mom of boys to have them take a self-defense because obviously we're all vulnerable. So just how we respond in those situations, I think is really important. So thank you so much you have been awesome and it's such a great message it gave me encouragement that I could maybe.
Speaker 4:We're going to do it. We're going to do it. I'm going to bring all the girls on my house to go do this.
Speaker 5:Yes, we're actually going to host a self-defense class, so I will tell you when we do.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2:We've been working it out Excellent, amazing.
Speaker 5:Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, thank you, thank you ladies, thank you for joining the ladies of the Middle Age-ish podcast as they journey through the ups and downs of this not young but definitely not old season of life. To hear past episodes or make suggestions for future episodes, visit wwwmiddleageishcom. That's wwwmiddleageishcom. You can follow along on social media at Middle Age-ish Also, if you have a moment, to leave a review rate and subscribe. That helps others find the show and we greatly appreciate it. Once again, thank you so much for joining us and we'll catch you in the next episode of the Middle Age-ish Podcast.
