MIDDLE AGEish
Authentically and unapologetically keeping it real, discussing all things Middle Age (ish), when metabolism slows and confidence grows. Middle Age(ish): A time of transition from dreaming of who we will grow up to be and looking at the legacy we will leave behind. Listen to this podcast and join the hosts of Middle Age(ish) as they sit around with a glass of wine to discuss all things related to middle age with some amazing guests!
MIDDLE AGEish
A Guiding Light through the Turmoil of Divorce
Going through a divorce can feel as if you're caught in a storm. But what if you could find a beacon to guide you, help you weather the storm, and emerge even stronger than before? That's exactly what we found in our conversation with Kristen Noel and Bill Miles, founders of Best Self Magazine. They share their experiences and wisdom on navigating through divorce and the importance of self-care during these challenging times.
Life, they say, is about the journey, not the destination. But when the journey takes an unexpected turn, how do you adapt? Kristen and Bill share their experiences of learning to embrace change, even when it comes in the form of a closed door. They emphasize the power of self-awareness, the courage it takes to lean into the unknown, and the importance of pivoting when things don't go as planned.
In the midst of such turmoil, it's easy to forget that divorce affects not just us, but our children as well. Kristen and Bill guide us on how to navigate these difficult waters, underscoring the importance of proactive rather than reactive measures. They share insights on the holistic approach to divorce and how a coach can provide much-needed support during this time. As a parting note, we delve into how to handle tough conversations with family members and the importance of being your best self even in the face of adversity. So join us, and remember, even in the stormiest weather, you're never alone.
To find out more about Bill Miles and Kristen Noel, CLICK HERE.
Connect with us!
Visit our website: https://www.middleageish.com
Instagram: @middleageish
TikTok: @middleageish
Facebook: @middleageishpodcast
YouTube: @middleageishpodcast
Twitter: @middleageishpod
Welcome to the Middle-Age-ish podcast, authentically and unapologetically, keeping it real, discussing all things middle-age-ish, a time when metabolism slows and confidence grows. Join fashion and fitness entrepreneur Ashley Badosky, former Celtic woman and founder of the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy, lisa Kelly, licensed psychologist and mental health expert, dr Pam Wright, and highly sought-after cosmetic injector and board-certified nurse practitioner, trisha Kennedy-Roman. Join your hosts on the journey of Middle-Age-ish.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Middle-Age-ish podcast. I'm Trisha Kennedy-Roman and I'm joined here today with my co-host, ashley Badosky, lisa Kelly and Dr Pam Wright, and we're going to be joined later in the show with Kristen Noelle and Bill Miles, who are the founders of Best Self Magazine and also our divorce coaches, and we thought that would be something really important to talk about in this stage of life, in our Middle-Age-ish years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because we've talked about multiple times is women find themselves in that situation and they then wake up and not realize who they are, what they are, what their purpose is, what their way forward And I've seen divorce go really, really bad at this stage And I think that's devastating. So I mean I'm excited not excited because that's not appropriate, interested to see positive way forward and coping skills. Because you know again, i'm not saying it for men, but you want fellow women to come out of a situation empowered.
Speaker 2:Well, i think it's really important to, because a lot of times children are involved And so I think having a coach to do it, you know, in a healthy, the healthiest way, because it's never going to be easy for anyone, but I think that having coaches to do it right, i think are really important.
Speaker 4:And just navigating because it's such a process and you don't know. you know what's mediation versus, you know getting your own therapist and your lawyer and attorneys and all those things involved And there's so many rules in different states. And why are kids used as a weapon?
Speaker 3:I mean, the children are the ones that are really. I feel like I mean, i have a friend who has a son and we've talked about this before like, at least at this point in his life he doesn't ever want to get married because of what he went through and saw his parents and how dysfunctional, and so kudos to those families out there that this is their path but they don't use those children.
Speaker 2:I think whether it's amicable or not, i think just keeping the kids out of that, i mean they really shouldn't be involved with that. I think it's terrible when people really involve their kids or use their kids, because that's the one that actually gets hurt.
Speaker 3:They get adults. I mean your feelings. I mean, yes, you have feelings of hurt and sorrow and anger or whatever. but kids are either just these innocent little beings and that's not their life. Like they don't need to have that anger, they've got their whole life to figure out and find their path, and you know whatever.
Speaker 2:So I think I don't have a choice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that matter, You know so they don't have any choice. But it's sad when you see adults still have the whole parent issue. I mean, I see so many adults who are still like I can't invite my mom and my dad to the same thing, And there are age. That's terrible And the parents are like they're literally to the point where they can't even be on the site for the grandkids. So then it's not even just the kids, but the grandkids, right?
Speaker 3:I think it's so sad because, like again, i understand anger and betrayal, like I get. I'm not trying to like sugarcoat that but I just don't think that I would have put my kids. I mean I could be angry at my ex-spouse and think that he just needs to. You know whatever. But what I was always told you can't say bad things about your ex-spouse to your children because your children will view it as like that's half of them. So that half of them. Do you think that about me? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's a really that's a really good way to think about it, and so like.
Speaker 3:I think that that's just.
Speaker 4:It's heartbreaking yeah, to be honest, yeah, And the way I think I look at it is everyone needs to have a healthy relationship with a mom and healthy relationship with a father. So, regardless of what happened between the two of them, kids deserve to have a good relationship, because that causes trouble later on, obviously if you have a daddy issues or whatever, right. If you want them to have a good relationship with both.
Speaker 5:And a bad husband or wife doesn't necessarily mean a bad parent either. Exactly, that's the thing. You know, the relationships are totally different.
Speaker 3:A spouse yeah, a spouse relationship has.
Speaker 2:It's completely different than a child-parent relationship And they should not be combined and all mushed together Like what I love about these two as well is that they are not only divorce coaches, but they have that best self magazine, so you know they focus on just living your best life and being your best self, which will probably, you know, help people through these things, or maybe even avoid these types of situations.
Speaker 3:You know, you know I mean this journey out of me the time Yeah. No, i mean, I understand life's not supposed to be easy, but as you get older you kind of hope that you're finding your peace and you know, no matter what, the path led you there.
Speaker 2:Well, i definitely think this is going to be a very important episode, and it is now time for our guests to join us. So we are honored to introduce our guests for this evening Kristen, noel and Bill Miles. Together, they have found a best self magazine and created the best self-intuitive divorce coaching program. Bill is a holistic life coach and Kristen is a certified intuitive life coach. So welcome to Middle Ages, kristen and Bill.
Speaker 7:Thank you so much. We're so excited to be here with you. This is awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are so excited to have you here. I'm a big fan of best self magazine, and best self is really a term that I've thrown out I've heard my co-hosts throw out because really that's our goal is, we're trying to strive to that finish line of being our best self, and I don't think anyone ever actually gets to that line. I think there's always room for growth. I know I'm far from the finish line, but that's our goal And that's really one of the goals of this podcast, and so I would love to hear how best self came to be.
Speaker 7:I just think that at the time that we started best self, we were so excited about kind of getting sparked by this notion of the interconnectedness of life, right, Like the body, mind, spirit connection that you know, like when you've got a backache, what's really underneath the backache, It's not just the backache. And the more we learn to sort of just identify the interconnectedness of our lives and ask these questions, we start to just be able to navigate this human experience in a much more conscious way, holistic way, empowered way. Right, We're not going to get through this human experience without some bumps in the road, without some roadblocks, without some, you know, whatever form it comes in for you. And it's really just. It's been such an exciting journey for us Because, again, that's really the premise of best self is holistic health and conscious living and just learning about yourself and learning how to empower yourself and really just create the best experience you can for yourself and your family and the world you live in.
Speaker 6:But it was also precipitated by us both recovering from the ashes of some pretty dramatic life events which we can get to in a little bit.
Speaker 7:Oh yeah those.
Speaker 6:I forgot about Oh yeah, those things we all go through in different degrees, but that tends to be when shifts really happen. Right, you go. Okay, things weren't really working so well before, or at least now I'm awake to what wasn't working before. How can I shift this and learn from this going forward? And you know, at a time that we met now about 18 years ago, we were both really shook and but both had this perspective of, okay, i don't want to sit in victimhood, i want to move forward with the next chapter of life. And so we're both on this learning journey.
Speaker 6:And the magazine just kind of came out of an inspiration one night where we're thinking about different ways to both learn and impact others in this space. And I came across a platform, sort of like late night internet surfing for online magazines, and I was just inspired And I was like this is it, this is what I want to do. But really, to your point where you started, best self is really it's not a goal, it's a journey. Right, you never really get there. The more you learn, the more you want to learn, the more you discover. You don't know. It just goes on. But that's driving for trying to be better tomorrow than I was today. That's what it's all about. In whatever little way you can do it, or big way, that's what we're about.
Speaker 5:And was this a huge change of career for both of you? Was this where you saw your life going, or was this just something completely different?
Speaker 7:I definitely didn't see that this is where my life was going. It was really excited that it was going this way. We were both doing separate things and we always referred to it as our baby. This was our creative baby And it was the space where we could really. It was a passion project, to be honest with you, and it just took on a life of its own, because when you're so impassioned about something, when you just are so on fire, it's just that energy follows it, and it was met with great success.
Speaker 7:We started co-creating with incredible thought leaders around the globe. We just kept getting excited and it just kept going And you never know, just like this venture that you are on right now. You don't know where it's going, but just follow the yeses. You know this is. Yes, this I'm really having fun. Yes, i'm really inspired about this. Yes, this lights me up. Just keep going. You might have to dance a little and squish it into other things And, as you know, getting the four of you in four lives coordinated is not easy. But because you're so excited about it, you're doing it. You're here in the studio doing it. That's inspiring for other people.
Speaker 3:I think that's when you know you're on the right path at least in my experience, like you were talking about, when you are impassioned and you're grateful for it, but then it also becomes where all the doors start opening together, as when you know that you're there for a reason or at least that's my opinion When you know that you're there for a reason and there is a bigger cause to it. So I think that's really exciting, because I know that I think we all can attest to that in something in our life. When we try and step outside of that box and our comfort zone because we believe in it so strongly, and when it goes in such a positive direction, you feel grateful, but you know that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in that moment. So I think it's fantastic for you guys.
Speaker 7:Well, and to add to that also, you know, like I said, you don't know where it's going to go. It probably will lead someplace else And it actually may lead to some closed doors. And you get to the point when you start to realize that, like, life doesn't necessarily give you a roadmap, and here are all the destinations, and here's the right train. This train departs the schedule as if only right. There's no travel advisor. I know exactly. Well, yes, there actually is. It's you become your own travel.
Speaker 3:That's true.
Speaker 7:You kind of just realize okay, there's a storm in Cincinnati, i'm not going to be flying through Cincinnati today. You know reroute. So I think that the more you learn to just lean into the unknown or the things that let you up, then you also can lean into the disappointment, like when a door doesn't open or something closes or doesn't go exactly the way you want, because that will happen, but you start to perceive it differently. It starts to be one of these things where it's I trust that this is happening for me, right, not against me. It's not a fail, it's just a reroute.
Speaker 3:You know, reroute, like you said, it's happening for a purpose, absolutely, and that comes with age. That wasn't how I was in my 20s, my 30s, early 40s. But yeah, that, like you just said, that the open doors are amazing and you find that trust within yourself. But also when, like you stated, a negative or a door closes, you then still have that same trust and optimism that that is a purpose in itself And you just kind of go with it And I think that's such a gift.
Speaker 2:Right, we use the term pivot a lot.
Speaker 3:I know, yeah, i love that word.
Speaker 2:I'm just turning the podcast, i've noticed that the word pivot is something that we use frequently And I think that's something really big when you're on a journey and you come into a little roadblock, instead of turning back, just pivot and figure out another way around it, and that's really. we're definitely learning that as we go with this even So yeah, it's a big, it's such a great word, right.
Speaker 7:Another word I love is plot twist, Like you said, the wisdom of just sort of pivoting. You know where am I in life right now, Where do I want to go And how can I make myself feel good while doing it?
Speaker 6:It's such a middle age theme right.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 6:Yes, Because your career may mature, your children may mature, your relationship may mature or over mature to a point that it ends. There are just so many things. Your body shifts. You know everything shifts. That's different for everybody at different times, And to be able to embrace the changes and see life as just getting better as you go forward is really the magic to enjoying life, I think. And it's easy to say the words and much harder to really feel it in your bones, but that's the goal.
Speaker 4:The magazine comes first, and then you also have the coaching.
Speaker 6:Well to pivot on that. so the magazine came first. But what really came first was our individual divorces. When I was talking about the ashes, we both had some you know pretty dramatic events in our divorce with young kids who are now adults. So that building back from that led us to create Best Self Magazine.
Speaker 6:But more recently we wanted to focus our efforts on really making an impact in a small niche as well, and because we were so impacted by divorce, we decided to create a really high level coaching program to help women mothers specifically going through divorce and navigate this better, because we have witnessed so many I mean ourselves included, but so many others. there's so much unnecessary suffering and expense and it can take so long and just cause such pain when it's not done right. We have learned how to ease that, how to mitigate that suffering on all levels and help people come through on the other side. So that's sort of the sequence We got divorced, boom, life explodes. And we created the magazine some years later and then some years after that, this intuitive divorce coaching program.
Speaker 3:What would you tell yourself going back to when you just started through the divorce journey and the hurt and the anger? What would you tell yourself then? that you know now Because I think that for those that might be listening that this could be coming up on their horizon. you know, it is a scary place. I've watched a lot of my friends go through it, and especially when they got to middle age, and so it is scary. So what would you tell yourself back when that chapter in your life, when that was the pivot for you, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 7:Well, first of all, I think one of our clients said it perfectly. We had worked with her for about a year and she came to the end of this and said divorce is a spiritual journey. And you know, people just immediately think divorce is all about the money and the assets and you know where am I going to live and quality of life and all of that stuff. Yes, that's all important. I mean it's those are all. You know, it's got a wide reach. You're not going to have the hindsight right away. Right, It's takes everything up, But ultimately, I think it's really important to remember it's an ending, but it's a beginning, And love that. It's really an opportunity. It's not going to happen overnight, but it really is an opportunity to see, perhaps just from your perspective, what was your role in this.
Speaker 7:Where did you stuff yourself? Where did you play smaller? Where did you shine less? Where did you say, okay, this is enough, This is good enough. Where did you lose pieces of yourself? Because when we lose pieces of ourselves along the way and we all do it, especially when you're a part of a family unit, you know you feel like I'm attending to all the agendas and to do lists and all the things. But this is why, like people think self care is selfish and nothing could be further from the truth is because a mama who takes care of herself is actually nurturing her family. Of course, she's showing up as the best wife and she's showing up as the best mom, and she's just showing up for herself. But if you're like worn out and frazzled and depleted and always feeling like your needs are at the bottom of the totem pole, I always say that's the bottom of the laundry basket and it never gets to you.
Speaker 7:You're going to explode one day. And then everybody's going to look at you like you're hysterical, you're like what is wrong with this crazy person? And then you sit in the shards of that and you start to collect these memories and realize, oh, i ignored that red flag, i pretended that was okay and I lied to myself about that, right. And so, listen, no marriage is perfect, no relationship is perfect, no self-care regimen is perfect. But it really is about awareness. It's really about just doing the best you can every day. Listen, right, you know, some days I'm drinking green juices and some days I'm not. No, judgment.
Speaker 7:So you just do the best you can, but it just really does come with awareness. It comes with awareness.
Speaker 3:So I would I know this is a long-winded answer, beautiful because I do think, like I said, i'm just speaking from the friends that I've seen They all had that same kind of deer in the headlight Yeah, and you just watched precious Women who have cared for their babies and tried to be a good wife, but then they're bewildered and they're just alone. So, no, i think what you said was beautiful, so thank you.
Speaker 7:Well, the other thing is that aloneness and that vulnerability and that fear, because this is all new territory, right. Sometimes people will go through decades of marriage, losing themselves along the way, and then they're just like. They're like sitting in a room with the shards of this disaster and looking around and Completely like stunned, like a bird that just flew into the window right, and I would also say just like, allow yourself To be in it. This is the problem, i think, with society also. We're just so quick. Okay, you got to get better. Like Buck up, you know, take some medicine, make, take a happy pill. You know you're gonna have to feel it, but just know that you'll get through it. And again, trust in your resilience, your power and your ability. Like trust that life is beautiful. Trust that life when you're authentic about Your needs and your relationships and what you're doing, life is working for you, even if a door is closing.
Speaker 4:I love what you said about just the self-awareness and being self-aware, and as a psychologist, i know that your service is not exactly what therapy would be, and we were talking a little bit earlier about like how do you incorporate all of this, i guess, together, because it does sound like a great service to provide for people who have a lot of Questions and don't have the answers that they need obviously. So when people come to your service today already know for sure I'm definitely getting a divorce, or how does that work exactly?
Speaker 6:I'd be happy to kind of jump in on that. Women come to us at many different stages. We love to get them at the early stages, like even before they officially filed for divorce, because there's so much at stake And what we call the first hundred days where everything unfolds how you communicate to the children, how are you going to set up, you know, co-parenting, how, what living arrangement you're gonna set up, what's the tenor and the tone of your communication going to be. These things Profoundly impact how the divorce will play out, even if it takes months or hopefully not, but it can take years, as you know. But so much happens in the front end. So it's really at many different levels that we meet them at, but we help them find calm and we help them get clarity.
Speaker 3:That's amazing.
Speaker 6:Yeah, that's a lot of confidence when everything You know, the floor has been torn out from underneath them Ultimately we remind them of who they are.
Speaker 7:Yeah, we really walk them back to themselves, because this is not like No one can fix your life, but you want someone to walk beside you, hold your hand, someone that believes in you, someone that sees you, someone that hears you. Some of that validate to you. And when all of those things come together, you'll have a sudden look around your look That's right, i'm a badass, i can do this. I can do tough stuff, you know. So that's really the ultimate goal of coaching is really walking beside your client and not fixing them, showing them how to fix themselves. And That is really, really powerful thing. And, like I always say, now, i've got the best job in the world. To me, it's honestly the greatest privilege and honor to Watch a woman take back her power, you know, yes, reawaken to herself. It is a slice of grace. It's always incredible to be able to watch you build somebody up.
Speaker 5:I was listening to a podcast the other day. I'm Irish, i'm not from here. We didn't have divorce in Ireland until 1995 and at that stage you have to be married, you have to be separated four out of five years before you could even apply for a divorce. So it's a very different culture to me. So it's always been fascinating for me to watch the way people navigate through divorce. And while we were researching everything about this podcast, i started listening to other podcasts as well and I saw that in England They have they've a very different kind of setup when it comes to divorce too. But most of the female lawyers are now trained in the menopause and And law so that they can help. Especially middle-aged women coming in and dealing with you know Everything to do with their emotions as well. So pretty kind of similar to what you guys are doing, but just in a totally different realm, which I thought was just fascinating.
Speaker 6:I love the holistic, the holistic approach to what's going on, and it has to be. It has to be holistic, as you said.
Speaker 5:Like you've lost, so much of your identity And who you are. Again talking from our age group as opposed to younger people, although I saw, i read something the other day that said quite a lot of divorce has happened between the third and fifth year of marriage, which was kind of shut the third and the fifth and then, once the kids are in high school, college Emptiness, yes, but just from our point of view, right you do.
Speaker 3:You lose so much of yourself that there's so much more to build up than just a relationship.
Speaker 5:So it's amazing to hear the things that you're doing to try and do that for yourself. So I think that's a really interesting thing to do. Then just a relationship. So it's amazing to hear the things that you're doing to try and do that for women. It's really incredible.
Speaker 7:It is really exciting because the truth is that we can't approach anything if we're not approaching it from Successfully, if we're not approaching it from a holistic standpoint. We are interconnected beings like we are. We can't ignore these different, these separate buckets. Eventually, it's going to trickle into the other bucket of your life, yes, and it's going to start to bleating that. We can't pretend that. You know You. Yes, divorce is a legal Procedure, a legal event, but I mean, this is your life, this is your kids life, this is, you know, it's affecting everything and how you deal with your own stress, your emotional stress, affects everything.
Speaker 6:That's a really big one. Stress is obviously a huge player From others going through divorce anyone going through divorce right and stress Manifests in so many Damaging ways your sleep, your health, your ability to function at work, your ability to show up as a mom, your ability to Make prudent decisions. I mean this kind of holistic view is really, as we mentioned earlier, the premise of best self in the magazine. We are interconnected. If your mind is out of whack, it can affect your body, if your body is out of whack and it could affect your mind and your spirituality and everything. So it's just removing yourself from the fire if you can and there are a lot of fires and divorce And stepping back and pausing and go wow, you know, be more mindful about the impact of what's in front of you or that you can have or how you can approach things, instead of being reactive, you know, to each fire. We want you to pause and be more proactive, more thoughtful about how to guide this.
Speaker 7:I'm glad you brought that, that notion of the fire in, because that's another thing I would say to women who are going through divorce. unless there's like an emergency, you know kind of situation going on the power of the pause It's just immeasurable. You literally took you a while to get here, so you do get to go back. You get to go to a meeting and have some information gathering. You get to have an appointment with an attorney and come home and think about it, as opposed to thinking like, oh my God, i've got to put the fire out. I've got to put the fire out, i got to make a decision. No, you know what You get to in most situations. you get to come back and think about that and sit with that and process that and figure out like, is this aligned with how I feel, how I want to go forward in the world, how I want to raise my kids. So that's another thing I would say is like to allow yourself, give yourself permission to pause, put the pause on to figure things out.
Speaker 6:And there are a lot of triggers that happen, right, you get inflammatory attacks from your partner, your ex, whatever or whatever. you know that you're just triggered and you got to respond.
Speaker 4:No, you really don't Not, right now I think, and therapeutically I think, we have to teach people to take the time and find what answer is best for them. I guess I'm just curious, do you see? I know you see people of all ages that are going through divorce and unfortunate situations, but with middle age women in particular, is there any specific things that you see that are different or that you treat differently?
Speaker 6:Well, one thing I find is that by middle age they've invested a lot of their life typically in this relationship, right, and there's a lot of sadness or kind of a sense of loss, because I mean the obvious loss of the nuclear family perhaps, but the sense that they've maybe wasted so many years of their life plain small, being squashed into a box And that's a more common theme for more in the middle age demographic than it is for younger, and so I think that there's the road to recovery from that is more of a real awakening That makes sense.
Speaker 7:That is really when the spiritual journey happens, because this is really the reawakening. I mean, i know that these women are incredibly, you know, we sit with them and they're incredibly devastated And we're very gentle about guiding them down this path to remembering, like, where did you abandon yourself, where did you let go of things that were important to you? And let's go find them. Let's remember, like life isn't over, life isn't over. And you know what? What if you were actually being protected? What if you're just meant to be out of this marriage? What if this was? and just because a marriage ends doesn't mean it was a failure. I always say in this way you've got these beautiful children to look at And you're grateful. These are the greatest gifts of your life, right, but things end. What if there's something better out there? What if you're meant to like go recollect those pieces of yourself and remember who you are?
Speaker 3:I wish I had known about this with my friends in the past because that's I mean, when I watched them, like everything you've said is so positive and it's so spot on, because I know, just watching them again, like we talked about, every decision was based on hurt, everything And you know we sat back and we watched the children, you know, and I think, well, not that, i think I'm positive that what you guys have spoken about today is going to resonate with those. I guarantee someone's going to be led to this podcast because of this exact reason, because everything you said I mean it does go to your soul And and just like I said, i think in the past, when I've watched friends go through it, it was every decision was based on hurt. The kids were just. They unfortunately got swept up in the storm and did damage. That was unnecessary, because both parents were actually good parents, like they were good people. It just was a chapter that was ending.
Speaker 3:So I just what y'all are doing, i think just is amazing And I really do. I feel so good that someone's going to hear something that they need to hear to make it right, and I think that your service to pivot and put the focus where it needs to be that it's just a new chapter and you can pick yourself up and the best is yet to come, cause, like I said, women in general, we just we want perfection, and that is absolutely unattainable. There is no perfect marriage, there is no perfect wife, family, kids, you know. But just to kind of get back to the basis of it, of who we are as humans, and build on that, i think, is just such a gift that you guys are giving.
Speaker 7:To be honest, we literally are so passionate, we're so excited about this work, like I said, helping women calm themselves, claim themselves right And also just navigate this tough stuff. Because you know your kids are on the sidelines. I don't care how old they are. They're on the sidelines and they're feeling and they're absorbing. So even when you're doing your very best, they feel the tenor of the house. They know that something is wrong And if you're not talking to them, then they actually might be making up a story that's even scarier than the one that's happening, and so we we can't deal with this stuff later And we're also modeling for our kids Like what, what is acceptable in life? What's acceptable in a relationship? Is this a happy marriage? Is this, what is this? is this marriage what I want for you? Such a good point.
Speaker 6:Which would, when you have your own life adversity or own relationship struggles, how do I want you, my child, to navigate that You're modeling it.
Speaker 5:They're always watching.
Speaker 3:They are Even when they yeah, even when they're not talking or you don't even know that they're not even in the room, they're going to be listening to your speech pattern. They're going to listen to you. See how you react to things. They're little stung.
Speaker 6:One thing we, you know, in a recent call with our clients I mentioned, i said we're talking about the kids and so forth, and is it selfish to you know, care for yourself and do the things you want to do? And I said there's not one of you in this room who's got children who wants to see you play small. There's not one of you that has a child who doesn't want to see you shine and be the best person you can be. So you owe it to them.
Speaker 6:You owe it to yourself, but don't think that you're compromising them by honoring yourself.
Speaker 7:You know, and that's not to diminish the pain of divorce, right, and the messiness of it, but we work side by side with mothers to navigate this, to keep their kids out of the conflict, to communicate with their kids. I mean it's not when I say keep your kids out of the conflict, it doesn't mean let's just pretend everything's fine.
Speaker 5:Cause, that's not good either.
Speaker 7:Like to Bill's point, you know your children are watching you. We want to impart life skills and tools and strategies upon them. That's obviously age-appropriate, but you've got to keep your kids out of the conflict, yeah but it's amazing how kids can.
Speaker 4:I think in therapy a lot of people will say you know, i want to wait until the kids are older, i want to wait until the kids are grown, or so they'll like make a timeline for themselves about when their happiness kind of begins, based on their kids. And usually when we talk to the kids, i mean the kids already know That's such a good point.
Speaker 7:I mean, no one can judge when someone should leave a marriage or not leave a marriage, but that is such a big thing. We hear all the time, i'm just going to wait till they're out of college, or I'm just going to wait till they're out of house, or I'm just going to wait, and I guess it just depends on, like, the details and the tenor of the house. But I mean, that is the biggest point What do you want your kids to live in, what do you want them to see And what are you modeling for them? Because it's not just modeling about the marriage, it's modeling about, like, your self-worth and how much you should sacrifice yourself.
Speaker 6:It may be true that if your child is one year away from graduating high school, that this is just not the right time. Right, right, and I'm not. We don't have any hard rules on any of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's Christmas Eve, it's probably like when you're in your 30s and you're already saying, okay, I'm just going to let my kids graduate from high school. That could be. It's a long time, Yeah, And if you're already in a position I feel that you are thinking about divorce, then it does like you guys were talking about. It impacts how you react to everything And that's what your children are seeing and learning. And kids know.
Speaker 4:I just I feel like they know You're so smart, They know.
Speaker 3:They get on everything. They are so smart.
Speaker 7:They do know and get caught in the crossfires. Yeah, and that's so sad And, to our point, we have. Both Bill and I have witnessed that And I'm going to tell you something It's not just a little cleanup. On the other end, if there's an acrimonious divorce or an acrimonious home situation, it's having tremendous impact on them and it is scarring them And people think, oh, i don't want to invest in a life coach right now. It's oh, my God, you have no idea how much therapy you're going to be investing in, how much life coaching you're going to be investing in. On the other end, if you wait until these issues are compounded, they have to be dealt with.
Speaker 2:It has to be dealt with. I think it's always better to be proactive than reactive. I mean, that's with anything, with your health, with everything, and so I think that's definitely the value of having a coach through something like that. It's just it's much easier to be proactive than to try to clean up the mess afterwards.
Speaker 7:Just ask for help, Really just ask for help When you're in pain, just ask for help. That's really what it boils down to We don't know everything. We certainly don't know everything, And if you can mitigate pain and suffering which you can why not ask for help?
Speaker 5:The amount of resources that are out there for people to not have such a stigma anymore. I do think people have gotten better about asking for help. I know I certainly have. Certainly by the time I hit my 40s I sort of well, okay, i don't need to be perfect all the time. I can ask somebody to help me out and it's no reflection on me as a mom or as a wife to say that I actually need help. But I do think it's just become a little.
Speaker 7:it seems a little less stressed for people I do feel I mean I've just seen just in my own life, like what I know was available to me 20 years ago and what's available now are just two completely different things. I really learned the hard way on the job training just trying to and I didn't even really know what I didn't know.
Speaker 7:I didn't know what I needed. And so I do think that the cycles have changed and that obviously there's more information that people can access and more services. So I think that has changed. I hope that the vernacular or the narrative hasn't changed about marriage, because I don't want people to deal with it flippantly like, oh, if it doesn't work out, let's get a divorce. I mean, like we're not encouraging people to get divorced, We're encouraging people to be conscious of their relationships and their families and their healing. And I'm so happy that there is access to these kinds of programs and coaches and therapists and that there's not the same stigma, Like you said. I mean it is wonderful mainly for the kids Yeah, Mainly for the kids.
Speaker 6:And there are a lot of relationship coaches out there too, which didn't used to be the case. So, trying to save marriages that have a tremendous success rate I know a number of them personally. So for us, we're not involved in trying to save a marriage. We want the best for everybody, but it's when you know it's imminent, that's when it's our domain. But Lord knows. I hope that they do save their marriages for their family's sake and their own personal sake, if they're meant to be, if that is the right decision for them. And I do agree that the resources are infinitely more available. But the key question is are you willing to grow and change and seek help or not? Because if you're not willing to open that door, to see life differently and move forward, it doesn't matter how many resources are out there, you're not going to go Right, yeah.
Speaker 7:That's such a good point. It's like sustainable. We want sustainable change. We want you know, this is not about quick fixes. This is really about evolution, growing, becoming, And that's really where you find your happiness and your ease and your health and your well-being not from running from one place to the next, But it's like really just kind of being with what's going on in your life. Why is it going on in your life? You know what? Probably because you're ready to see it now, Right.
Speaker 6:If you get stuck in victimhood, you're never going to make that move forward. Right.
Speaker 7:As mothers, i mean. I remember I went through a very dramatic experience and it was like I initially was just like curled up on the sofa and then I realized, oh yeah, i have a toddler, i have to get up off the sofa. Not that we want to lean on our children this way, but, like I say to my son, who's now, you know, a young man working, he's, he saved me. Yeah, he saved me, not because he fixed my problems, but I was like, I looked at his face and it was like no, he deserves better than this, right.
Speaker 3:You fixed your problems because of him. Yeah, right, because I was a mama, i know. Hey, yeah, we're all mama bears, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7:And to your point before, when, also when something is not right with my kid, nothing is right with the world.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah. Well, i always say I'm always, i'm as happy as my saddest child with my two boys.
Speaker 3:That is like my mantra, especially getting older. I am I'm only every day, I'm only as happy as my saddest child, And so that's an eight in us. But I think it's so positive that you guys reinforce that again goes back to best self. If you are your best self, then you give the best, And all mamas want the best for their babies. So hopefully that's encouragement for anyone out there that just to take what you guys have said and turn into their best selves because their babies deserve that amazing.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, we definitely appreciate your time today. I think this was very helpful, not just for those who are going through divorce, but just in general. Everything from you know making sure to take a pause and, before you react, taking care of yourself and the whole mind and body. You know in unison and you know how those affect each other, and so we definitely have enjoyed our talk with you today and we'll post. Also, when we post this podcast, we will post your contact information as well, so people can get in touch with you.
Speaker 3:Yes, Thank you guys so much for taking a negative that happened in your personal lives and making it to such a positive. I really think it's amazing that you guys do what you do and it's such a gift And so so thank you for that.
Speaker 7:Thank you. I am so honored to be here with you today and I'm actually I'm so excited to see what happens for you. Well, you know what? It's fantastic and I think you're going to inspire a lot of people. I mean, obviously, the content and the conversation is wonderful, but I think you're also going to inspire other women to just go out there and do it, just do it. So best of luck for you and I and like, we want to come back. We'll come back and have more conversations, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys again for everything. Thank you so much Amazing.
Speaker 2:I think that it's great that there are these services available.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean I do because what we talked about at the beginning. I think that you have to do whatever it takes to put your children and their wellbeing and their mental health and their stability above all else. And there is no shame in getting that. Help to find some type of bridge, because people usually don't get divorced because they're happy and they're at peace. They get divorced because something's happened and there's usually always one that's more hurt than the other and it's just all these crazy conflicting emotions but it's not the children's responsibility or fault. So I think that's encouraging to know that there's services out there, There's people that can help guide, because nothing matters more than your children.
Speaker 4:Because I do think people, when they come in, they feel like they're on their own or they're alone and they don't know how to navigate the worries of going through all these things. And what do you do first? And then you're listening to a friend or someone else who's like had a horrible, or somebody who's you know everybody gives you advice, but it's your own journey, and so having someone who's a professional kind of help guide you through that is important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think that you make good choices when you're hurt.
Speaker 2:No, i think tying in best self as well. I think you know we talk about on the airplane when they tell you to put your oxygen mask on first, i think in order to help guide your kids through that. I think it's important that you're taking care of yourself right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Focusing on your best self.
Speaker 5:And any time you can get help to get you through any situation, I mean it's just the best thing. It's just so good to know that there are people who are out there that can help you, because every divorce is different too.
Speaker 3:Every relationship is different. Yeah, absolutely, and again, there isn't help matters.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's good to have the objectivity too. So it's not someone who's close to you who's saying, oh yeah, he was this, you know she was like yeah, somebody who just they're like hey, here's what I'm seeing in here.
Speaker 3:Maybe they do think people need that, like I mean friends have the best of intentions, but they're your friends And they're loyal to you and they're going to do whatever they think you need to get to the other side And someone looking in from the outside is crystal clear There is no loyalty, it's just, it's facts. It's like. This is what I'm saying, this is what I think can help, because they don't have the emotion involved, so they can get more objectively. Absolutely, yeah, i just I think. Like I said, i think friends and family always have the best of intentions and that needs to be appreciated. However, there are those times where you need someone that actually has no ties to you Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because you're going to.
Speaker 3:I think you're going to listen to them, you know, because, like if your family member told you something that you didn't want to hear, you're going to get mad at them and they're not going to understand. But when it's someone from the outside with a completely different objective, i think potentially you see it differently and you might take it in differently, right?
Speaker 2:Well, cheers to being a best self.
Speaker 3:Cheers Just a muddling through this together and trying to make each day a little bit better. Cheers, cheers.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining the ladies of the Middle Age-ish podcast as they journey through the ups and downs of this not young but definitely not old season of life. To hear past episodes or make suggestions for future episodes, visit wwwmiddleagishcom. You can follow along on social media at middle-age-ish. Also, if you have a moment to leave a review, rate and subscribe. That helps others find this show and we greatly appreciate it. Once again, thank you so much for joining us and we'll catch you in the next episode of the Middle Age-ish podcast.
